This week we'll be beginning The Bacchae, in which a major theme is "transgression and punishment." My question for you this week relates to this theme and asks... what is the difference between justice and revenge? Who decides what is defined as just? Is this socially or culturally constructed, that is, are these definitions incumbent on the culture or society from which they emerge? This is due by midnight this coming Friday.
Justice and revenge are similar, but not entirely. In my opinion, justice is a form of revenge, but revenge may not necessarily be justice. Revenge pertains more to one individual's own perspective on justice, and to doing themselves justice, but it may not necessarily be "just" in terms of society's standards. Society, then, sets the general definition for what is regarded as "just". The definition of justice emerges from society as well as culture, as two people living in the same society may have different opinions on what is considered just, if they are from different cultural backgrounds or had different upbringings.
ReplyDeleteIn general what's "just" is decided by society. Therefore how grave a culture believes an offense to be would affect what a just punishment would be for it to them. What's just should be agreed about by the majority. It's a "proportional response."
ReplyDeleteRevenge is typically more personal. A person's need is what fuels it, not a communities. It's an unorthodox method of seeking justice. It's usually also more harsh than a typical "just" punishment.
Callie Stribling 1/2
I think "justice" is defined by whatever culture you live in. In America, I guess we would call it "fair and equal punishment" or something like that. To me, revenge is a type of justice, it's simply a lot more personal and doesn't necessarily conform to a culture or societal view of what is "just". For instance, if someone kills my mother, society might think justice would be to put them in jail where they can't kill anyone anymore. But my personal justice, or "revenge" could be to kill that person.
ReplyDeleteOlivia Nanyes, 5/6
I would most definitely agree with Olivia in saying that revenge can certainly be a form of justice (although I don't believe that the opposite is necessarily true). Whoever makes the determination of what is considered just and what isn't always depends on the situation and what perspective one may look at it from. On a larger scale, we see governments making these decisions and usually attempting to make the most objective judgement, whereas on a smaller scale, people who are more personally affected by the situation tend to make more subjective, biased arguments and may have a completely different view as to what is considered just. The outcomes of these situations are absoulutely influenced by the cultural norms or what a society thinks is acceptable, which can often lead to clashing opinions, potentially creating larger conflicts which can be seen in the past and today.
ReplyDeleteKatie Pastor, 5/6
I think justice is determined by the culture you live in and the laws that are made. I also think justice is a form of revenge. If someone steals something and then goes to jail for it, that is getting revenge on them for the crime they committed. However, I don't think revenge is always a form of justice. I think revenge is determined more by social standards (which could be somewhat different than laws) and how something affects someone on an individual level. Revenge is more of a "getting even" than "getting justice," which aren't always the same thing.
ReplyDeleteSam Kaspar, 5/6
ReplyDeleteI think that different cultures (and different time periods as well)have a huge influence on what is considered just in that specific moment in time. For example back in medieval times it was seen as just to execute someone by slicing through their neck with a blade, for crimes that we don't necessarily put people to death for in the present day. Also I think justice is a form of revenge that is seen as being socially acceptable because justice usually follows the written and unwritten rules of societies and cultures. Revenge, however, is not always a form of justice because revenge is more controlled by the human emotions, whilst justice is controlled more by the standards of society.
ReplyDeleteAlexa Etheredge 1/2
The problem with comparing revenge to justice is that sometimes our personal feelings blind our decisions when we want to take revenge. Justice is fair, but revenge is more like a desire to do worse than the person who hurt you. It's a competition. Justice is definitely based on culture. People define fairness based on their own morals and cultural norms, but these norms are different from culture to culture. Therefore justice is subjective and cannot strictly be defined. Revenge is especially constructed socially. What an upper class 80 year old may do for revenge is certainly different from what a 13 year old from Harlem would do for revenge.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSofia Dyer
ReplyDeleteperiod 1/2
when i think of justice i think of the quality of being "just" in a structural government. i definitely think that government and culture plays a big part on justice. for example in some places its ok to have animal sacrifices or even human sacrifices but in other places you could go to jail or punished if you do such. when i think of revenge i think a little personal, within oneself to have anger or hatred towards someone who did wrong to them and want to hurt them back. for and example if someone killed my best friend i am going to want to find that person and take revenge, im going to kill them back. revenge is more of a personal pleasure towards someone else. justice is like the fair ruling of good and bad the should be followed and if not will be punished by the ranking of the damage made. so you can have revenge in justice but you cant have justice in revenge.
ReplyDeleteDanni Biddle 5/6
The line between revenge and justice is blurred for many people, though it may seem clear to some. In my opinion, revenge is just as long as it is fitting for the crime which is only something you can determine. Though our government sets laws to prevent most revenge on large scales, there is preset laws to determine the justice required. For example; imagine your close relative is paralyzed in a car accident by a drunk driver, yet the driver lives. Most people would want the drunk driver to be put in jail for life or some may go outside of the law and try to do the same to them, but when the government catches the drunk driver they are put in jail for X number of years and most likely fined and/or have their licence revoked. All in all, justice is simply organized revenge.
ReplyDeleteI think that different societies and time periods have a different take on what justice is. People in the early ages of civilization punished children for back talking to there parents and found it "just" most of the time to cut of a body part such as a hand or finger for the actions they made. Meanwhile nowadays talking back to a parent can be seen everywhere (just go to the Lake Travis area). Justice and revenge are similar in the sense that if one is to commit a wrongdoing then somehow you will be punished for that crime. I agree with Callie when she says that revenge is more personal, while justice is more socially acceptable.
ReplyDeleteSebastian Canizares
Revenge and justice can be easily mixed up in someones mind. I do believe that the environment a person was raised up in has a big effect on what their version of justice is. I believe that justice is decided when a number of people from different backgrounds can agree on the right thing to do. Fury can fuel a man's revenge and that's the problem with it. It only takes one person to crave revenge for things to go down hill from there.
ReplyDeleteMakala Kuhr 1/2
Everyone has their own definition of justice and revenge based on their opinion of the socially accepted norms in their culture. Their point of view may be slightly more extreme or conservative, but that opinion definitely draws from the cultural standpoint. In our society I think people tend to confuse revenge with justice, or think that they are one and the same. A childish example would be egging the house of someone who ruined something you made. I feel that justice is what will best resolve issues two people may have, while revenge is an impulsive and competitive desire to be better than somebody else. What is considered justice may not be the most satisfying option but in the long run it is better. If your child was killed in a random massacre you would want the murderer to die as payback. However, being sentenced to life in prison would be a cruel enough punishment, and the emotional repercussions of being partially responsible for another humans' death could be too much for some people to bear. Revenge is an endless cycle that I think probably stems from the id of the subconscious. People do something bad to you, which on a primitive level establishes their dominance and which in turn provokes you and causes you to return the favor, establishing that you are the dominant one. Revenge is to me a concept that makes sense as a survival mechanism in the wild, but as a stable species we have no real need for it in society.
ReplyDeleteShannon Plunkett 1/2
Justice and revenge are similar in the sense that for both to happen, there had to have been some crime committed before. The difference though is that justice brings what is coming back to person who did the wrong by some third party which wasn't necessarily effected by the crime. Revenge is when someone who was directly effected by the crime attempts to get even with the wrongdoer. Justice is usually determined by the culture of society and is either enforced by governmental laws or by socially acceptable norms. Revenge is also more frowned upon by societies and cultures where justice is thought to be one of the backbones of a society.
ReplyDeleteGabby McRoberts 5/6
ReplyDeleteOften I think justice and revenge get muddled in today's society. I consider justice to be when the resulting action to something is fair and well-deserved, but things can easily go too far and slip into the revenge category. Particularly, I believe justice to be without malice. Once something gets personal, as it often does in matters of justice and revenge, lines can get crossed. I agree with other comments that the extent of justice depends on what culture it takes place in. This makes sense because each society has different definitions of what is morally right and fair. Something that can be said for most people though is that those who commit justice do it without feeling rightful guilt. Revenge, on the other hand, is much more vindictive, and although guilt might not be felt by the acting party, they do feel something more on a personal level.
ReplyDeleteJenna Lang 1/2
Justice and revenge are easily confused, but are two distinct concepts. Revenge is justice, but taken too far. For example, if I were to take a large boulder and drop it onto Bill Gates's brand new Ferrari, it would be just for me to pay to fully repair the Ferrari, even though Bill Gates can afford 54,000 new Ferraris and I would have to sell my house, car, and work in the coal mines for a year to cover the cost. On the flip side, it would be revenge if Bill Gates murdered my family, as that is a little bit overkill.
ReplyDeleteThese classifications are determined by society in its upbringing: I was brought up to believe in the “you break it, you buy it” mantra. A society could easily be conceived in which if I destroyed Gates's Ferrari, I should have to pay astonishingly little. Because the amount of damage done to Bill Gates was small in comparison to his net worth, I should be hurt a similar amount, about one hundredth of a cent. One hundreth of a cent is to me as a Ferrari is to Bill Gates For me to have to pay even a full cent should seem treacherous revenge in this society. It then seems that a person could be brought up to believe in a “proportional worth” style society.
Lane Kolbly, ½
I think that the difference between revenge and justice has a great deal to do with the country that you are in. If I was in Darfur and was a part of their police force I could shoot someone for stealing my sandwich and that could almost be justified just because of how corrupt their government is. If I was on the police force in Austin I could be suspended for punching someone because that revenge for whatever the criminal said or did to me would be unjustified in the U.S. So I think that revenge can be taken as long as it is within the law. Justice can mean whatever you want it to mean, so you can go as far as you want to with revenge. Just know that if you take that revenge too far the law may step in because your revenge was not justified under the law of whatever country you're in.
ReplyDeleteRyan Rash 1/2
Justice is something driven by the power of the law and the drive towards rightful punishment in the eyes of the government. Revenge is something much more organic and natural. It is the act of getting even through one's selfish means. The difference is in the intentions. Revenge stems from powerful personal intentions and is driven by passion or rage, while justice is driven by logic and the desire to serve the law. In our society, the court decides what is considered just and what is considered vengeful. Acts of passion as in those of revenge often are not seen as justice because they are considered "cruel", though to the avenger they seem perfectly rightous. When viewed by an objective court, the passion and rage of the avenger is lost and so cruel acts of revenge may seem less than justified. This structure has been developed through the growth of our court system, as objective individuals such as judges deem what is acceptable and what is not. When we examine cases, we do not consider the cause for them, only the effects. This is how an act of revenge can be seen as something less than an act of justice.
ReplyDelete~Hannah 1/2
Justice is what the law defines as a good punishment for the actions of one who did wrong. Revenge, however, is an action taken outside of the court to punish someone for a wrongdoing. Sometimes, revenge is illegal. The jury and judges in a court decide what is just when they make a ruling for the punishment of a criminal. Therefore, justice is a social construct because the definition of what is a just punishment can differ from society to society, even in different parts of the same country.
ReplyDeleteConnor 5/6
I think that justice and revenge are very similar, but I think that justice is considered to be based off of rational thought, defined by society, whereas revenge typically is irrational. To provide an example, justice could be the accusation of a criminal that committed a crime against you, because we consider accusing someone in court to be a rational way to solve your decisions. By the same token, revenge could be anything that we don't consider based on rational thought- for example, the murdering of someone who, say, ran over your pet; They easily could have sued the criminal, but instead they acted on irrational feelings.
ReplyDeleteAs a lot of people have stated, justice should be without personal feelings, but it rarely is today. The new definition is that your vengeful actions have rational and reasonable cause. If we still believed in justice being something we didn't get personal with, then there would be less crime that goes by unreported because someone didn't want to deal with the hassle of reporting it because it just plain didn't involve them so their thoughts are that they don't need to care.
In the end, it boils down to what society feels is right or wrong.
~Testa 5/6
I consider justice to be a form of punishment that is equal to the original action, but if justice is taken too far it can become revenge. I think that each society and country has a different view on what is "just". There is not one single agreed upon concept for what is "just". I believe that justice is constructed socially. Because different societies can each have different views of what is just.
ReplyDeleteI believe that Justice and Revenge are very similar, as they both share the idea of one being punished for an act that was committed against someone. Justice however is based on what is right and what is rational. Without a doubt, justice is not considered to be a guilty act, but rather an act that serves as an reimbursement for an unlawful or inhumane action committed against you. Revenge on the other hand is an action that occurs completely out of spite, anger and irrational thoughts. Revenge is often committed under reasonable causes, however these causes, but that still does not make what i may or may not do right.
ReplyDeleteI consider Revenge to be an action that can be controlled by an individual, while justice is often controlled by an enforcer of the law (police officer, sheriff, etc...) or a legal system (such as a courtroom). Furthermore, what is just (and who decides it for that matter) depends on your culture and where you live, as social norms may differentiate in different places around the world. While something which we consider to be unlawful or unjust in America, may be perfectly acceptable somewhere else in the world.
While revenge is considered as 'getting even' with someone else, justice is considered 'whats right' and therefore accepted within your culture.
Like I have said before, I believe that the ideas of what is just (and unjust) as well as the idea revenge derive from social and cultural norms in their own ways.
~Raeneisha Cole
Great Ideas--Periods 5/6
I think that revenge might work best on a personal level. For example, somebody plaid a bad joke on you so... you want to have revenge. Now if you plaid a bad joke on several people and then it fires back at you, I would call that justice. I think a group of people should always decide what is just, never an individual. Justice is a social thing in my opinion. I say this because I cannot see social without cultural. Society is what makes our culture, as a group we decide our culture and also what is just and unjust.
ReplyDeleteSandra Norwood
Period 1/2
Justice and revenge are very similar in some ways but there is a clear distinction between the two. When one chooses revenge they are acting based on their own personal morals, usually because they have been wronged in some way. Justice is when a problem is resolved and made just, or fair, usually by multiple people rather than one individual. Justice is also carried out by a culture's laws or government to dictate what is and isn't socially acceptable. Justice is often peaceful and civilized, and issued after a consensus is reached by its government officials. An example of this is if one were to murder another; whether this crime was committed out of revenge or not, it will be punished for breaking the laws of society.
ReplyDeleteIvana Correa 5/6
I think that Justice and revenge are one in the same, except for the fact that one is done out of personal hate, while the other is done for the good of the universe. Since revenge is a personal matter, revenge tends to be more severe in degree than Justice. The laws established by society dictate which is acceptable, and most of the time, revenge is not accepted, and even justice can only be legally administered by officers dictated by society.
ReplyDeleteSpencer Neth 5/6
I think that justice is revenge in a socially acceptable way. The difference between these two is that revenge is not seen as the correct thing to do in the eyes of the law. Even though it is the right thing to follow the law and wait for a "just" punishment to a crime to be agreed upon, sometimes the crime might have caused a lot of pain to an individual so they felt they had to seek revenge. Like many of my classmates have stated I believe that the concept of justice being the "right thing" was created by society.
ReplyDeleteElizabeth Mendez 1/2
I view justice as a socially defined concept. The justice is a societal decree which is subjective to whomever laid down the rules while revenge is something entirely personal. The phrase "petty revenge" is used in situations where ones own personal justice is used which may not be for what is to be considered "for the greater good". In other words, justice IS revenge for a group at large. People can choose to go against the given laws and perhaps they will eventually get the societal justice but if that is not followed through then personal revenge comes into play.
ReplyDeleteKira Strzepa 1/2, sorry.
ReplyDeleteI think justice and revenge are similar, but the way that they are different really defines them. Justice is defined by the leaders of society, while revenge is a personal affair. Revenge is more dangerous and is irrational by nature, where as justice is seem as good and right. The superheroes fight for "truth and justice", where as revenge is what the monsters in Wes Craven movies are after. Because revenge is so personal, it is much more dangerous than justice. A felon is much better off being handled by the criminal justice system, then the revenge of a scarred victim.
ReplyDeleteMoira Quinn 5/6
No matter what the circumstances are, being the party who endures a wrongful act, results in your seeking either of these two things: Justice or revenge. Justice is basically defined as the concept of moral rightness, which is based on the rules of fairness, ethics, equality and law. Revenge, on the other hand, refers to an action taken by an individual as a response to a wrongdoing.
ReplyDeleteIt all comes down to the fact that justice has a positive connotation and revenge a negative one. Because something that's just brings closure while revenge results only in personal satisfaction.
-Noe Mina 1/2
Society's view on life today marks the fine line between the two, and that line is defined depending on both the social and cultural emotions of the society. These views may be modified as time goes on, but societies' outlook on revenge and justice will remain in the ruling of human emotion.
ReplyDeleteJustice and revenge are certainly similar and often mistaken with each other, but I believe that justice is a selfless act where one sacrifices something in order to make another better. Revenge is a selfish act caused by raging emotions. For example, the police force exercises justice when arresting criminals for the sake of others, but a man who kills his wife's murderer exercises the act of revenge, even if the murderer had been a threat to society.
-Amber Mangalindan 5/6
I think the main difference between revenge and justice is that revenge is a more personal matter than justice. Revenge usually involves hasty decision making and leads to nothing but more confrontation. People have placed bounds in regards to what they feel is just becuase of culture. You don't here people going around promoting murder as an okay think to do in their culture, so it is not considered a just thing in today's society. - Danielle D, Great Ideas 1/2
ReplyDeleteI see justice and revenge as 2 similar concepts that become more different when they are examined more closely. Justice is the result of one's actions and how they are interpreted by the law or whatever rules are governing you whether that be a game or life in general. As Danielle commented, revenge does take a more personal path than justice. But revenge is also a sub-category of justice. The only difference is when revenge is defined, it usually refers to a person or group of people striking back if they feel they've been wronged. Morals are what defines one's personal sense of justice but morals are also influenced by the culture and environment that one grows up in. But if a culture or society instructs someone on a path they don't believe in then there's nothing that can make them feel just about their actions.
ReplyDelete--Aiden Kahn, 1/2
Revenge is a universal need, and justice is the way to administer revenge in a socially acceptable and controlled manner. The severity of the justice applied to a wrongdoer is dependent on social norms and the laws of that culture, and in that way is somewhat objective. Revenge, on the other hand, is much more personal, and is based on the subjective views of the wronged person, not on any social norms. Social justice is a way of harnessing the instinct of revenge.
ReplyDeleteSander Trubowitz 5/6
Justice to me is the act of punishing someone to the extent that is slightly lesser or equal to the crimecomitted based upon the judgement of a society. For instance murder, is usually not punished with murder (but is punished with up to life in prison) unless the alleged has commited mass muder then at least in the united states they are leathally injected. Revenge however is at minimum evening the playing field with one who has wronged you. Or it is exacting an extreme punishment worse than the fellony commited. The society decides as a whole what justice is, and it’s a pre-determined thing so it cannot be changed from case to case senarios.
ReplyDeleteChristopher Delgado 1/2
The difference that I see between justice and revenge is that justice is brought upon using a fair way and the punishment fits the crime, and revenge is when someone does anything they can to avenge what has been done to them despite if it is right ow wrong.I think this is defined by society in the most obvious way, because some of the most obvious ways to get revenge are also illegal.
ReplyDeleteDenali 5/6
Justice and revenge have some similarities, but I think they are a little different. Both are done in retaliation of a wrongdoing. I think justice is like an eye for an eye, or to make things fair by a punishment, to make everything just. Revenge, while it is still a reaction to an offense, is not always fair. Many times when revenge is sought the person getting revenge does something worse than the original crime.
ReplyDeleteEmerson Curtis 1/2
Revenge and Justice are very similar concepts and vary from society to society. I find justice as a mild form of revenge that is more determined by society. You could say that those are the written laws that we have today that are socially decided on as a way to take revenge upon someone and is acceptable. For example, if someone took some one else's life, the social "justice" would be to either execute or go to jail which I think in society, is the excepted form of revenge. I think the concept of revenge though has a more personal connection and is fueled by emotion. In some ways it's like an eye for an eye but on a more personal level and the person may even take more until they think their "justice" was finally served.
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone defines what is "just" because its meaning is different for every culture. I think justice more originates from society where as revenge is more of an emotional justice and comes more from the culture.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion 'justice' and 'revenge' are one in the same. If you want revenge usually it's because you want justice. What is 'just' is subject to change depending on who you ask therefore can not be formally defined by any one person or entity. However, as a society we (for the most part) let the government decided what is just and what is not for us. But then again, even among the people in the government there are differnt views on what justice is and how to interpret certain laws according to specific situations. The subjectivity of the two terms makes it almost impossible to cleary defferinciate between what is 'just' and what is 'revenge'.
ReplyDeleteJeanea Davis 5/6
I think that justice is a form of revenge, and whether it is just or not is relative. Society decides what just is. For example, if someone robbed a bank, the court would put in jail as their just punishment. But if the person who robbed the bank took the money because they were barely getting by and they needed to support their family, their family might be happy to have the money and see the "just punishment" of jail as revenge from the bank that "isn't willing to provide money for those who need it."
ReplyDelete---Gabi R. Hadad 1/2
Sorry but i still haven't gotten the hang of this... so im doing it now.
ReplyDeleteJustice is completely, 100% determined by society and culture. Justice takes what humans believe is good and what humans believe is bad, and allows those that do good to be justly rewarded and condemns those who do bad to be punished. For example, society deems murder to be a bad thing, for the most part. Therefore, it is justice to lock up, or in some cases even kill those who murder. These punishments are decidedly just because our culture makes it that way.
Revenge on the other hand is a sort of twisted, dark form of justice that is not always based on the moral code of society. Revenge is the idea that someone should be forced to feel what they caused someone else to feel. Revenge is similar to justice in that it is typically the punishing of someone, but the difference is that the person may not deserve the punishment in the case of revenge. For example, someone might take revenge on someone who accidentally harmed their friend by harming them, but this is not just because the person did not have bad intentions, and shouldn't be punished by society's standards.
~Jesse Moritz 5/6